Data Colonization
AI data centers are becoming one of the most talked-about development issues in Indian Country, bringing important questions about water, energy, land, and Tribal sovereignty to the forefront.
On this guest-hosted episode of All My Relations, Dallas Goldtooth sits down with Ashley LaMont for a powerful conversation on land, resistance, and the growing threat of AI data centers across Indian Country.
Ashley is the Co-Director of the Department of Sovereignty & Self-Determination at Honor the Earth, she explains how stakeholders are framing AI infrastructure as an economic opportunity for Tribal Nations while these facilities consume enormous amounts of water and energy. Together, they unpack the environmental impacts of AI, the ongoing realities of colonialism, and why Indigenous sovereignty must remain at the center of conversations about technology and development.
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A/V Production & 2nd Edit: Pancho Sánchez
Music: Mato Wayuhi
Produced by Matika Wilbur
Episode Artwork: Kitana Connelly
1st Edit & Social Media: Mandy Yeahpau
Episode Transcript:
Welcome back to All My Relations. I'm Matika Wilbur from the Swinomish and Tulalip tribes. I'm here today with Dallas, who's getting ready to share with you his third episode in The Takeover.
Dallas, hello. Good to see you,
Matika, and all the people listening today. Hi.
Dallas, today we're talking about AI, about generative AI, about data centers in Indian country. Your guest, Ashley Lamont, is super cool. I just love everything she has to say. I'm really excited for this. But tell me, why do we need to keep talking about data centers and generative AI? Why is this important to you right now? And how is this very specific to Indian country and what Indian country should be thinking about right now?
I wanted to talk about this because it's such a great intersection of so many things I find interesting, but also I think that, you know, has a deep impact on Indian country. I read this report by Honor of the Earth. It's a nonprofit organization that... on protecting the planet, and they state that between 103 and 160 hyperscale data centers are being planned on or near native lands. I read that and I was like, oh, crap, we need to talk about this. It's about data sovereignty. How are communities, how are tribal nations controlling what data is saved, what data is used, who consumes it? It's a conversation around water usage. I mean, that's a big talking point that we're going to get into in this conversation with our guests. It's a conversation about... fuels, right? Because right now, the argument that's being presented is that we need more fossil fuels to feed the AI markets when... we actually re-examine that? Can we talk about that? The biggest issue on the planet is climate change. It affects all life, doesn't matter where you're at. And the emerging market of data and generative AI is deeply impacting that frontline fight. This past year of 2025, in North America, data centers use nearly one trillion liters of water.
Oh, my God. Data centers consume roughly 6% of the electricity supply of the United States. And it's expected to double in the next eight to 10 years, these projects not only impact the local ecosystems and local communities, but it's also going to feed to this greater... crisis that we're experiencing across the planet. And we talked about this before with Dr. Keolu Fox, and one of his stats is that the data industry requires approximately 200 terawatt hours annually. And with the combination of phones and personal computers and AI, heat emissions are poised to surpass the fossil fuel industry as the number one contributor to the climate crisis in our lifetimes.
And it's so complicated, right? Because we know ourselves as land and water. based people we call ourselves by the lands that we come from as the people of the blue green water or us we call ourselves salmon people or the people that live within the four sacred mountains and so you know we have these like deep inherent land-based identities right I don't want to you know sound like Harrison Ford and get all Pocahontas-y but you know It's just the truth. You know, like we dance for the salmon. We live for the salmon. It's just who we are. And, you know, how can we be salmon people, you know, if there isn't clean water for the salmon to return to? It's the jokes with all the Paiutes that I would go visit because they name themselves by the type of eaters they are. It's like, you know, we're the salmon eaters, we're the trout eaters, we're the rabbit eaters. And it's like... Are we the Walmart eaters? You know, like, are we going to have a land-based identity for our great-grandchildren if we're destroying the land and water at rates never seen before with the overconsumption of clean water?
You're right. It just deepens the contradictions of our lives as common, regular people, that we live in a world where we are forced to consume and use products and items that we may not want to use.
And so where's the space for us to have a conversation about what do we do? and what do we need to do i don't want to sit here though and pretend like i'm all high and mighty and i don't be using chat bt gbt i do guys i have used it it is really really convenient claude too dude like super convenient it's it's complicated you know because there are times when it's way easier to use generative ai than you know to use my brain to write an email i actually feel Dallas, my brain is getting more mushy the more I use it. I have to personally create boundaries for myself around the overconsumption of media, overconsumption of generative AI, and just generally ask myself, what would be better for myself right now in this moment? Should I go outside and go for a bike ride with my kids, or should I stay here and keep... doom scrolling you know and sometimes I choose doom scrolling. I'm just gonna say i want to see cats surfing and shooting bows and arrows. That's what I want to see right?
No I'm with you on that I it's real when i first came across when AI came across I started making weird images because I wanted to see what it could do my like one of my background images on my computer was like a generated AI image of a massive turtle with like lightning shooting out of its eyes and there's a thunderbird behind it because I was like 14-year-old me was like, oh, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool, man. The turtle has like a necklace that's a big medicine wheel, right?
That's the conundrum, right, is that we can't ignore it. Like it is in our face. This is an issue that's pressing. And so if we're not having this conversation, then we are missing a huge... for change. Well, I'm excited to get to hear from Ashley and all the good work that they're doing. And let's get into it. Let's go.
Welcome back, everybody, to All My Relations. This is your host, Dallas Goldtooth. And today we're having a conversation about data centers. We're going to have a conversation around generative AI and its impact. on Mother Earth itself. And I'm going to be talking with a good friend of mine, Ashley Lamont. Ashley Lamont is Oglala in Sichangu, Lakota, and an enrolled member of the absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma with ancestry from the northern Cheyenne, Dakota, Nakota, and Delaware. She's a whole gathering of nations unto herself.
Ashley is the co-director of the Department of Sovereignty and Self-Determination at Honor the Earth, overseeing national campaigns focused on land back and sovereignty for tribal nations. and communities. Dang, that's a bio and a half. Welcome in, Ashley. I just want to say, you know, Niawe and Wopila for inviting me here to talk about all of these things, Dallas.
And I just want to say, you know, hi to everybody. I'm from Oklahoma. A lot of us, you know, in Oklahoma have that like mixed bag of ancestry, some little northern, southern woodland mix.
Also have a nice, rich history, my family being in the movement, moving around a lot. And so that's kind of how I came to be. actually in Oklahoma. It was an action.
I was super intimidated. by you because you showed up you had the dark shades on you're giving like strong vibrant anti-energy like don't fuck with me but I'm here for the people kind of vibe you and that's that's that's your vibe that's what you gave off and I loved it at the time you were running right before that you were running for like the Oklahoma Corporation Commission which they regulate and they oversee oil gas and pipelines in Oklahoma you're now working on a campaignagainst data centers.
Yes, Generative AI hyperscale data centers, like we have to be very specific because there's a lot of semantics around it and people are like, there's 26 different kinds of AI and there's already data centers. Yes, definitely. But like what we're talking about is the generative AI hyperscale data centers that are gigantic, like taking up, you know, hundreds of acres of land being proposed for, you know, all over Indian country, all over Turtle Island and rural communities in particular.
Maybe a 200 acre data center, you know, has thousands, maybe even a million different servers inside of that building. And they are running 24-7. And it's so hot that it's paramount to a nuclear power plant. You ask any of your nerds, ask your uncle, your niece, your nephew. When I was a gaming nerd, there's two ways that you can keep your gaming computer cool. And that's air. You blow a fan on it. But the most efficient way is liquid-cooled, a liquid-cooled computer.
In 2023, Google's data centers alone use over 6 billion gallons of water. for cooling their servers. This mass amount of water can't be returned back to the hydrologic system. They're talking about being able to recycle the water. In Oklahoma, we already know what happens with this so-called recycled water. That happened with hydraulic fracking, where they're trying to tell us that this wastewater that's being used for the injection wells is going to be safe for consumption or safe for our crops. And we know that that's not true. And then one of the other, I think, physical and very tangible impacts of these hyperscale data centers. is that they do require so much energy that what we're seeing, and this is actually how we even entered this fight in the first place, is that nuclear is being pushed.
So they actually have to build additional energy sources just to power these hyperscale data centers. We're seeing modular reactors being proposed for small communities like Coal Strip, Montana, next to Northern Cheyendras. We're seeing this happen and play out all throughout Turtle Island. It's being pushed forward as a solution for a false demand. The industry is trying to say that we need all of this energy. Really, what studies have determined is that over the last three decades, we haven't even increased our electricity needs. The only place that it's actually true is around the data centers.
It reminds me of in the oil and gas pipeline fights, there's a term called locked in economics. So they're like, all right, I'm not going to just build a pipeline to fit the current need. I want to build a pipeline that can fulfill the need 10 years from now. They build a pipeline that can carry, let's say, a million barrels a day. but they can only currently transport 200,000 barrels a day. Their argument is, well, we already invested so much into this, we have to meet capacity. We're locking in the need of this. Economics drives so much of our society that the system then caters to that. Well, hey, we already got all this infrastructure. We can't just waste it. We have all these pipelines. We can't waste it. We have all these data centers. We can't waste it. We have to fulfill. That's why we need more nuclear. That's why we need to drill baby drill. We need more oil and gas because we got this need. It's that revolving cycle. We create a problem and then come up with a solution that fills our pockets. And by we, I'm saying society overall.
And at the end of the day, you know, the burden of the cost falls on the rate payer's shoulder. And so these industries are not absorbing the cost. They're raising our electricity bills. And so we're seeing up to upwards of 267 percent increase in electricity rates for rate payers who live around these hyperscale data centers. And I'm sorry, like in a place like Oklahoma, where our grid has already failed because of climate crisis and where we have monopolies in our energy industry, we only have, you know, one place that we can go to access electricity. just a recipe for disaster.
We're relying on this technology that we're trying to put so much pressure to our grid that can't even sustain that. And we can't even afford our electricity bills right now. Like mine, you know, it's like $300 on average. Our modern society was built upon extraction of oil and gas, right? The industrial boom that happened in the 1800s. Data is the new world currency.
Human beings are the product with generative AI. When something is free, you are the product. And what we're doing is we're teaching these models. It's not like they're actually doing anything more than what we already can. The data centers and generative AI, this whole industry is being used for surveillance and to exact a genocide in Palestine and other indigenous communities.
There's an immense environmental impact, but you're also getting into... the social impact one of the things that we like to say is you know ask your auntie not ai because you know as we know our communities we do have all the knowledge we do have the toolkit and we do have the information the whole purpose of the data mining and the data farming is to get that from us because we are the experts and you know they don't have that access to that we provide that access and so just you know understanding and knowing like the places where we can opt out I think is really critical, but it is also understanding, you know, it is predatory. And I think it is really, you know, wrong to blame our communities for using the tools that they have available to them because, you know, of environmental racism, because of colonization. The reality is we are the ones who are being preyed upon. We are vulnerable communities and we have a lack of resources.
We have a lack of access. And that is exactly why these industries are looking at our communities to come. in because they know that we are economically bootstrapped we don't have you know access to like this diverse economy in our communities a lot of them are like in oklahoma casino you know casino tribes and that is why you know pipelines and like oil and gas you know the industry comes and like promotes their jobs in our communities because they know like we have no other opportunities and these industries are coming in trying to say like these hyperscale data centers if we can build them on your reservation this will be like a economic boom for you. You'll be able to, you know, get out of poverty. You'll be able to support your communities. You'll be able to protect your tribe for generations to come. And I definitely like sympathize with that argument.
But the fact of the matter is like these data centers, they don't provide jobs. We're literally training this technology to make us obsolete as labor. We're already seeing labor forces being replaced by the technology that we're teaching by entering into these agreements and into these relationships. And then one of the other things that really drives me wild around the jobs is that, yeah, there are, with pipelines and all these other extractive industries, there are a lot of jobs in the construction phase or the initial phase. Once the permanent hyperscale data center is in place, the truth is there's very few jobs. And most of those jobs are in security. So it's like security guards. And so, you know, they're just literally telling our communities lies, baiting us with false promises. At the same time, you know, just trying to rush us through these processes without even explaining to us what the risks might be. Making our tribal leaders sign non -disclosure agreements so that our communities can't even ask questions. And not even having the information themselves to make the decisions, but feeling that like sense of urgency and that need to be reactive rather than responsive to addressing our issue of poverty.
That's the tension that tribal leaders, I feel like they're compelled. To play that by that game, we're like, well, what are we going to do? We have an opportunity to bring in some money here. Maybe we work on the contract. Maybe we put a little bit more protections on it. It'll be okay.
That was a big issue around carbon offsets. There's a lot of tribes that do this, especially on the West Coast, Pacific Northwest. They sell carbon credits. Companies will give us money to protect the land.
That's called nature-based solutions, right? Ooh, that's so great. Awesome. But... On the flip side, what that allows that company to do is to expand operations in the global south. Because they say, well, we're protecting a forest in northern California. That means we can continue our mining operations and timber operations in Brazil or Honduras or Mexico or in the Philippines. And so what may be of good interest to us in the immediate is actually continuing a system of oppression. elsewhere, and oftentimes it is other Indigenous peoples.
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I think there's a tribe in Oklahoma that's looking at doing data centers. Right. Several of them. Okay.
Yeah. The Muscogee Creek Nation and Jordan with IEN actually, you know, led that charge against fighting that data center. And they actually just had a vote in their national council this last Saturday and they successfully shut it down. And another example of that just really quick is, you know, Project Blue. Project Blue is the name of the data center. What happened is after they successfully beat it down in the municipality, the company came around and now they're like trying to like subvert that process and still trying to come right back. It's like one of those whack-a-mole things. It's very similar to the pipelines where it's like the large corporation and the smaller umbrellas underneath it. So they have like less liability and more secrecy. Like Project Blue, they think is like Meta and some of these other like hyperscale data centers that are being proposed for Oklahoma. The non-disclosure agreements make it difficult to find out who the company actually is. They're going by these names like Project Anthem, Project Blue, and really their umbrella or shell corporations for like Google or Meta or Elon Musk. And so we're seeing these companies. are targeting specifically places that have already dealt with a lot of extraction.
Definitely coming after places in Oklahoma because we don't have regulations and we do have, you know, this tenuous relationship with sovereignty. Even if we did have like federal regulatory standards around these hyperscale data centers and around generative AI, it doesn't do anything beyond those borders. What are we going to do when these multinational corporations are realizing that they can go to Indian country to store their data or to take data? from our communities and bypass, you know, the so-called American like regulatory standards. We're also seeing on the flip side, like this is the first time since fracking, honestly, that I've seen like white people being so mad. It's the feeling of the secrecy. Like nobody likes the NDAs. Nobody wants to not know what's happening. If, you know, we weren't monitoring all these agenda minutes, all of these like city council meetings, all of these like county commission meetings, we wouldn't even know about some of these projects. And then when that secret is paired with rapidly moving these projects forward, it's just going to cause a recipe for disaster for the communities. It is a way for tech companies to come in and prey on our communities and get access to our resources, access to our wide, you know, expansive land base and access to, you know, our people. We're definitely seeing this as like the new mass threat in terms of a system that transcends borders.
Just being really real about that, like Andy Casey, Camp Hornick says they don't have the bayonets, they don't come in with the cannons. anymore, but they do come in with these multinational corporations and they're achieving and exacting the same thing. And so I think as indigenous people, part of Turtle Island, we do have more access and we do have more resources and we do have more privilege than other Indigenous people. It's really important to understand and come back to relationality.
My people may not be actively genocided right now, but at the end of the day, we understand, you know, what's happening over in other places like Palestine. And so it becomes even more critical for us as Indigenous people. have been part of this system, have been part of this oppression, and experienced these things, that we use our privilege. In this moment, and especially being in Oklahoma, we're in the midst of this huge sovereignty fight with the state. We need courage.
We have this prime opportunity as sovereign, autonomous nations that have self-determination. That's why the data center pisses me off so bad, is that we don't have to sign on to this. absent ourselves from all of the stuff that Trump and this government has going on if we made that decision collectively to have some courage and to do something different. That's like both where my frustration and my hope lies. We have an opportunity in our sovereignty. to do something different. One of the things that we like to say, you know, over and over again, like especially in Oklahoma, is that sovereignty is good for everybody. Like in Oklahoma, like our economy is like we can't rely on the state. And so where do people go? They go to Cherokee Nation.
They go to Chickasaw Nation. They go to Choctaw Nation. They access our health care system. They access our economy. They are employed by our nation when they need assistance, like with food stamps, you know, being cut off in like a place like Oklahoma. We're already food insecure. All 77 counties. We're relying on the tribes. And it's like just an example of like how sovereignty can benefit everybody. And it shouldn't be scary. I just really want to see our tribal leaders step into courage. Don't be afraid to fight the government. Like, yes, like fight against them. Like some of these things are really cruel and unjust and they are also illegal. We have the opportunity and the positionality and the power to combat that. And so for me, as an absentee,Sean, person, as an Oglala person, I want my tribal leaders to stand up against injustice. I want them to have that courage and to show other tribes that we can do something different.
And sometimes, quite frankly, we don't have courageous leadership, and so we have to be that courage sometimes. 100%. It's grassroots movements. It's grassroots movements. It's folks organizing, building together, holding our leadership accountable. That's the way it's always been done. That's inherently indigenous, depending on what tribe you are. There's different ways, but we... space and hold space to uplift our leaders, but making sure that our leaders are aligned with our values and vision, right?
This has been great. I'm so excited. Folks, me and Ashley haven't talked in a while, and this is great that we actually got to ramble on this and enjoy this. What I like about this conversation and what I like about, this is a plug for all my relations, but is that I feel like we don't have enough space in Indian country to have constructive dialogue. We are so used to the space of public dialogue being deconstructive, right? Just throwing insults and saying, oh, well. Well, I remember your dad did this to my dad back in the day. We need more spaces like this to have an engaged conversation about where are we as a people, where have we been, and where do we want to go? And I see your work on a personal level, your professional work contributes to that effort to push us forward. Because it's always about moving forward, no matter what. What's over the next hill that we need to work towards? So I appreciate you so much for that. I want to give space if there's any closing thoughts or words you want to give as we kind of close this out.
I just want to say, you know, Niawe and Wopila to Dallas and Matika for inviting me to share some of my perspective. We're in this space where like we have to fight for our land. We have to fight for our future and we have to fight for our communities.
I just want people to, you know, look around them. You know, one of the things we learned at Standing Rock is that the front lines are everywhere. They're in your backyard. And I want people to like pay attention to what's happening. One thing that like colonization and capitalism and this like. settler government is so good at is making us feel disempowered and like we don't have community and community and empowerment and that is the way to combat colonization and capitalism and to move us toward that future that's like decolonial or indigenized whatever the you know future generation you know comes up with fighting those battles where you're at
Don't be afraid to go to your tribal council if they have something on the agenda that's like a data center. Don't be afraid to reach out and don't be afraid to make those networks in those communities. And for me, I always live my life as a future ancestor. One day, future generations are going to look back.
I don't want them to look back at me and be like, well, that's the sellout in our family. That's the reason why we're in the position we are now. And so I think if more people lived as future ancestors with the realization that future generations are going to look back on this and see what did they try to impact i think that we'll be in a better place and so yeah i do have a lot of hope even though a little rugged hey hell yeah i i think about that that future generations are gonna look at me and be like that's my grandfather naked on a horseback right there i'm proud of it. How can people follow you for more information about the work you're doing? Don't look me up on Facebook, but you can follow Honor the Earth on all social media sites. We're putting all the information out there. We're really trying to fill those gaps and make things accessible.
And then we also have a coalition that is not Honor the Earth. It's grassroots people all across Turtle Island who are fighting these data centers called Stop Data Colonialism on Instagram. And you can see all the different indigenous communities who are trying to battle down. you know, generative AI and these hyperscale data centers.
Oh, yeah. Thank you very much.
Well, that's all we have time for today, listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in.
And, you know, before we go, Dallas, I just want to touch on, you know, some solution-based ideas. You know, like when you think about this, is there a solution to all of this? Did a really good job unpacking the problem. But what is the future look like for Indian country when it comes to data centers, when it comes to generative AI, when it comes to using these technologies in a good way for our communities? Is it even possible? Well, first and foremost, I want to say if you listen to that interview and you felt guilty, good. Good. You feel guilty. You're disrespecting your elders for using AI. They're judging you right now. Put that in your chat,GPT. Are my ancestors ashamed of me for using you?
Oh, man, it's so tough. In the field of climate justice, there's a phrase that we use called just transition. And I think that really has to be brought into this as we close out this interview and this discussion. We can't turn off all the oil and gas valves because we know that it's going to hurt and harm. kill a lot of different people and that what we're actually advocating for is a just transition towards a better world. We know that it's going to take a process. We know that we need to phase out all these things. So applying that same mentality of a just transition needs to happen to this conversation on generative AI. First and foremost, we have to ensure that tribes and communities decide. what projects happen in their homelands, no matter what, that we reject any idea that our communities are sacrifice zones, right? These projects are targeting our people because they sometimes think that it might be easier to get them approved on tribal lands than it is next to a major city. We need to make sure that there's a resource accountability, that we're transparent about how is water being used and how is it going to impact our electricity demands, all that stuff. This has to be more than a conversation around economics. Tribal leaders are in a tough spot where they're... oh, we need jobs, right? We need to make sure our people have the economies to provide for themselves. But going down the route of generative AI and partnering with data centers, is that creating the future you want for your people? Is it strengthening our culture and language? It may be and it may not be. Does it deepen our dependency on extractive systems?
That's the big one. So I have more questions. I mean, the answers, the solutions are amorphous because it's unique for everybody. But I do believe what Ashley was talking about, what all these organizers are talking about is like the current system is messed up. The current system is extractive. The current system does put profits over people. We have to balance that and make sure that we are intentional about how we utilize them across the board. And that it's done in a sovereign way. Absolutely. tribal communities, as tribal leaders, you know, we have to be able to make these decisions for ourselves. These decisions cannot be made by corporations for us, right? 100%. 100%. Nailed it on the nose.
Is that the phrase?
Put a nail in it. You slap canoe with the salmon. Is that the phrase? That's definitely the phrase.
Yeah, I'm over here slapping canoes on salmon. You poke the tonka in the nose. That's the appropriate phrase. I don't know, man. I tatanka'd it? You tatanka'd it.
Boom, boom, boom. I don't know. That to me always means like buffalo robing somebody, you know, like dances with wolves. She comes in and she unveils her buffalo robe. And so that's what I always call it. You got to keep this PG-13 here, Matika. There are kids listening to this.
All right. Chill out. No buffalo robing. Okay, kids.
All right. Thank you so much, relatives. Stay tuned for the next episode on my journey of taking over all my relations and make sure you hit the like and follow and subscribe and share with your
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