Creation Histories

Do you know the true narratives that shape the people, animals and lands of the Coast Salish People?

This episode of All My Relations explores Lushootseed creation histories as living knowledge. These stories anchor us in the past, guide us through the present, and prepare us for an uncertain future.

Host Matika Wilbur (Swinomish & Tulalip) leads the conversation through the origin story of the new exhibition, Coast Salish Creation Stories, opening at Tidelands, and shares why this moment calls all of us to learn from Indigenous knowledge and come experience the show.

As elders teach, “make yourself still and engage your five teachers.” With that invitation, we sit with Puyallup Tribal Language Director Amber Hayward (Puyallup and Salish) and Tidelands Assistant Curator Ashley Frantz (Makah). Amber traces how colonizers recorded Lushootseed creation histories in English, often stripping them of meaning, and how today’s language revitalization movement restores their depth, power, and accuracy. Through her teachings, we learn why these stories matter, how to listen in a good way, and what it sounds like when creation history lives in Lushootseed itself.

Ashley joins the conversation to share how artists and language keepers co-created the exhibition with the Puyallup Language Department and eight other Tribal Lushootseed language departments (and Lummi), bringing creation histories into visual form through contemporary Indigenous art.

The exhibition opens February 7th at 6 PM. All are welcome to the opening reception and to experience the show through July 2026. Tidelands Gallery welcomes visitors Wednesday through Sunday, 11 AM–5 PM, with full step-free access throughout the space.

We can’t wait to see you, relatives.

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Resources:

Creation Stories Exhibition Opening Reception: https://www.thisistidelands.com/event-details/creation-stories-exhibition-opening-reception

The Puyallup Language Program

https://www.puyalluptriballanguage.org/ptlp/ 

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Credits:

Film Production by Francisco “Pancho” Sánchez

Music by Mato Wayuhi

Produced by Matika Wilbur

Episode Artwork by Katana Sol

Episode Transcript:

When we started Tidelands, when we dreamt up this idea, we thought that it was important for a few things to happen here. We wanted to have a home base for this podcast. But we also wanted to be a public space where Native people felt comfortable coming inside and saying, I want to tell stories about this. And so before we even opened, I asked Amber to come in and do a photo shoot so I could put her picture on the wall. And Amber came in and we were talking story. And I said, yeah, we want folks to have the opportunity to pitch ideas.

And you said, let's do a creation stories show. And I said, yes, let's do that. Because I have been dreaming of that and wondering and thinking to myself, why isn't this a part of the popular consciousness? Why do I not know more about our own Coast Salish creation stories?

Welcome back to All My Relations. I'm Matika Wilbur, and I'm really excited to be talking story with Ashley and Amber. We're talking about the work we're doing here at Tidelands in our new exhibition. It's about... Coast Salish creation stories, and I couldn't be more thrilled to finally be at this place where we get to have this conversation. So before we jump in too far, please go ahead and give us your traditional introductions as you would to a large group of people. Yeah, introduce yourselves.

Good day, everyone. My name is Amber Hayward and my Indian name is Kwekwaditab. I'm a Puyallup tribal member on my father's side and my mother is enrolled in the Salish tribe in Montana. And I work for the Puyallup tribe language program. Hi, everyone. My name is Ashley France.

I'm from the Makah tribe, the Idis-Allebush family. I'm an artist myself and assisting in curation here. I'm graduating from the Institute of American Indian Arts in the MFA Studio Arts program this spring. Really excited to be part of this work. Cool. Well, you know, when we started Tidelands, I wanted us to be a place for professional development.

I wanted us to be a place where young Native professionals, people like yourself, Ashley, going through an MFA program could come here and work and get, you know, like rugged, res-y experience, you know, doing stuff. So then when you go work with all those pastas, it'll be easier. You won't have to deal with, you know, rez things.

But, you know, the idea was that can we be a place where Indigenous people come here? to hear story, to talk story, to bring their own stories, a place of agency, a place where, you know, the stories that matter to us, we get to tell ourselves without a white lens, you know, without having to filter it through a non-native curator, through a non-native, you know, board of directors, you know, so the people making the decisions can be ourselves. And so for me to be sitting here today. Telling this story is, for me, deeply rooted in dreams coming true and in agency, you know, and this belief that our stories, our narratives, our way of life doesn't need to be filtered by other powers for it to have value and importance and meaning.

Thank you for participating in that vision and that goal and that dream with me to both of you.

t̕igʷicid, I feel honored and grateful to get to do this work. I feel honored to get to do this work. Well, let's talk about the foundation of all of this. You know, why are traditional narratives and true information important to our people? You say here, you know, Lushootseed traditional narratives are a foundation of our culture. These narratives give us insight into the world of our ancestors. They explain lessons and teachings. and they guide us through our lives. The narratives give us our creation stories and help explain how things came to be in existence today. 

Can you talk to us a little bit about how these traditional narratives are, in fact, the foundation of our culture, how you came to learn that information, why that's, in fact, true for you? You know, obviously learning your language, it starts you there, you know.

And I used to work in our historic preservation where everything was written and translated by white men in English. And so when I would read those, you know, stories, and then after learning Lushootseed you know, years later, they're completely different, you know. So that was pretty fascinating. But the foundation and going back as far back as we possibly can is in these Lushootseed Stories. The lushootseed stories not the english translations from white man you know in archives um this is the oldest thing that we have to our ancestors to knowing how they lived how they interacted with each other, obstacles that came up in their lives, what they did when they came up against those obstacles. There's tragedy all throughout, you know, our narratives and our stories. What is Lushootseed? So Lushootseed is a term that was coined by a linguist named Tom Hess, who worked with many of our lushootseed-speaking elders. Northern Lushootseed sometimes is referenced as lushootseed, and Southern is referenced as...

There's many other ways that tribes identified our language. But Tom Hess, you know, he was the linguist. He was writing the dictionary, and he cut off that first part. and called it Lushootseed because that was easier for the, you know, non-Lushootseed speaking folks to say. If you've ever wondered who speaks Lushootseed, there's lots of tribes that speak Lushootseed. There's about 13, and they all pretty much surround the Puget Sound area. The farthest south, I believe, is Nisqually, and the farthest north is probably going to be Upper Skagit. And the elders said this is one language. It's not different languages. Absolutely not. They were like, this is one language.

And I think... northern and southern, the difference. Here we are living in United States, and maybe you have a person that lives in Texas, and maybe you have one that lives in New York.

There would be no question that they're both speaking English, but there are going to be some dialectal differences. So it's the same language up and down the Puget Sound. Is Lushootseed a living language? It is. Yes.

It's alive. But you're correct. Some people want to. you know, um, do this in general over Native people. You know, if we're out fishing with nets, oh, your ancestors didn't fish with nets. You know, they try to date us in that way as if we wouldn't evolve as a culture, you know. And same for the language. It has to evolve or it will not continue to live. If you don't make new words and keep up, it's not going to live.

If you only, you know, allow certain people to speak the language, it's going to die. Everybody has to. speak it to be a healthy language I think the same thing happens with our visual work right like we get stuck in this static moment in time.

We're frozen in the past. We're like fetishized as just existing in the past and playing into that like the vanishing Indian. So I love that we're working with folks that are bringing traditional and contemporary materials together and kind of like resisting that. expectation of us.

I mean, I have folks come in sometimes, they're like, well, this doesn't look like Indian art. I'm like, hey, you know what? We have contemporary and traditional work here, and we're not here to cater to your gaze and what you expect us to be making. I like to go back to this, to think about like, well, what is the male gaze? Well, the male gaze exists because it was white male colonizers making work for white male colonizers. to sell things to white male colonizers.

So what is then an indigenous gaze? An indigenous gaze would be indigenous people making work for Indigenous people. So when I'm making work, I should always be making work specifically for my people. I should be writing books, writing articles, making podcasts. And then if the pasted benefits from that, then that's great. But that's not the intention. And I think, you know, obviously, you're able to do that so well, because you're existing within a tribal language

department.

Right, you're not having to constantly interact with the public. But what you say there is like, speaking Lushootseed is for everyone. And, you know, we're teaching Lushootseed this winter here at Tidelands. And we get a lot of phone calls from folks who call and say, like, I really would like to take the class, but I'm apostate. They don't say I'm apostate. They say I'm a white lady. Or maybe they should start saying I'm a European immigrant.

Can I take the class? How would you respond to that?

Yes, you can. So, you know, each tribe is different with their language program.

Our specific language program mission and goal is to revitalize the Lushtootseed language in the Puyallup tribal community. So that's our priority. If we're prioritizing other people first and we don't even get our own people speaking, then something's wrong there. There are places and spaces for other folks, non-natives, community, people from different places or people that just really want to learn a language. And there are places for that. Like, so you're making a space here at Tidelands for anybody to come here, but it's set up like that. Anybody can come here to do this.

We have, we've had other institutes where, you know, it's open to anybody, everybody come on down.

But, you know, like I said, just certain specific places with resources that we have in our department, it's open to the Puyallup tribal community. I think it's awesome. If non-natives want to learn our language, they should. There's a lot of resources out there where they could learn it if they even don't even step into a classroom. You could go watch some YouTube videos and literally, it happens all the time. I post the people, what?

I don't even know you. But it's so awesome. They'll go research because they're like, no, I'm invested. I want to speak to, you know, tribal people on. You know their lands you know and we love that we want to go into different spaces and see that not just on our reservation so i think it's absolutely wonderful um if you are non-native and you want to learn the shoot seed take those opportunities that you do have i think it's great And then as you speak our ancestral language, you kind of get into that lens of our ancestors and have an understanding of maybe what they were living through or the things that they did because we're in a whole different time right now and we don't do things that our ancestors did so long ago. And I think that's why sometimes it's hard to comprehend some of these old narratives and old stories, because, you know, how many times have you fell a tree? You know, like I haven't done that.

Right. But when you're listening to Lachutzi stories, you know, they're talking about these things and the lushootseed goes back as far as we can even comprehend.

Right. That's the oldest. factual information that we have about our lives and our ancestral lives. And so we call them narratives because there's lessons to be learned out of each of those narratives. You have certain characters like Blue Jay or Skunk that are running around causing like havoc and, you know, bothering people. But, you know, then we try to look at, well, there must be people like that, you know, or out here in the world. And what can I learn from this narrative? That can help me today with people like that. Or, you know, you pull out your own out of these narratives and stories because it's those teachings that you get. And you're supposed to hear them multiple times, too, because at different points in your life, you know, may mean something different to you. And then we have Sietzab, which is true information. One of my favorite ones is Ayahos, the hunting monster. That's considered Sietzab, true information is not a made-up narrative, you know, where he lures the hunters into the woods, you know. So there's that type of information that we have. And then we have our traditional creation history, which is also considered sietsub, true information.

It is not considered a narrative, a made-up, you know, story. And so we have these different types of ways that we receive, you know, history and information and stories from our ancestors left here. through Lushootseed that we are to glean information from and help us to guide us through our lives. And if we don't have that as a foundation, I can absolutely see how we could be lost.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this sort of esoteric spiritual warfare that we're experiencing right now in this country, right? Like, I think it's safe to say that we are in a time of war in this country. You know, when you start... taking people and putting them in cages and not letting them have food and racially profiling people. And then citizens start pushing back by saying,

I'm not going to pay taxes. And they're shooting people point blank in the street. And it's coming from a very specific place. It's coming from the alt-right conservative Christians. And what gives conservative Christians the right to this sort of behavior? Well, I think that it's rooted in manifest destiny. You know, this idea that they believe because God chose them that they're a superior race and that whiteness gives them the right to attack brown people, you know. And so when I think of the value that a creation story plays in the shaping of a society or in the shaping of the way that we treat each other, it's absolutely deeply intrinsically related. To what you're saying, it teaches us how to live. It gives us a way of life.

And so the antithesis to the alt-right is then learning, observing, participating in, and teaching. our own ancestral narratives, our own creation stories, our own value systems to our own people. But then also, as it says in some of these things that you've brought to the table, it says that this is for everybody. You know, I love this at the end. You said, we understand that not everyone shares the same teachings.

However, we are following the teachings of our elders who told us that these stories were shared with everyone because no one. was denied the teachings of the traditional narratives.

It's very opposite the way Christianity works, where they say, this is the way and you have to follow it or you go to hell. And we understand that there's difference in teachings, but we will not deny you the right to know this sacred information because we believe it can help you. And what a beautiful offering. And so, you know, that's what I think that what we're doing here, we're creating this beautiful offering. Jumping off of what you were saying, thinking about… colonization as this ongoing process that we're up against. I'm seeing this continuation of us sharing our stories and asserting our presence as a process of decolonization.

This is just a starting point. We are including many voices from this place. We have folks from all the way up in Lummi and out to Makah, Puyallup, all over this region sharing their voice in this show. And I think that's really powerful for us to assert our presence. show that these stories are alive. So it's really radical and powerful what we're doing, especially as someone that didn't grow up hearing my own tribal histories growing up. So it's really special to be a part of this work.

Well, we have to always remember that was done on purpose, right? I remember one time I was in Lummi, and I went over to Chief Bill James' house, and I was sitting there with him and Fran, and he told me this story of how this man came to his porch, and he'd been drinking a little, and he was crying, and he said, you know, I'm sorry, I don't know how to do anything. I don't know how to weave. I don't know about our shalangan. I don't know about our way of life. I don't know. I don't know how to do anything but, you know, fill the sadness inside of me and this hole inside of me and this darkness inside of me with alcohol. It's all I know how to do, you know. And Chief Bill James said to him, you never have to apologize for the way that you are, you know, and for the hole inside of you. You never have to apologize for that that was done to you on purpose. Never feel bad about the things that you don't know yet. You know, we love you. We're here for you. We're here to teach you those things. That shame is not yours. You don't have to carry that anymore. And when he told that story, I think something inside of me was released from the

shame that I felt for, I think, a good portion of my life for not being able to speak my language and also for not knowing these stories. And I think that's partly why it was so important to me to do this work is so that my daughter maybe won't know that shame. You know, what brought you, Amber, to this kind of work in the language department? I probably felt the same feelings that you both felt, you know, you know, feeling shameful for not knowing the language, hearing others speak their language and immediately can rattle off their creation stories. You know, it's so humiliating and embarrassing. And we've all felt that, you know, we can't just rattle off our creation stories because I don't know them. And so the work that we've done in the Puyallup tribal language. program has been building over a decade right and so we didn't just go dig right into the creation story right away we had to learn how to speak and you know get into some smaller narratives that we could probably comprehend a little better and then we were gearing up to release and work on this version of our creation history, so Star Husband and the Transformer from Jerry Keenum from Snoqualmie. 

Our staff just started getting all into it, and at first you can't comprehend it because it's not something we hear a lot. I was like, we're going to share this with our own community. I'm tired of non-natives telling us, oh, do you know your creation history is da-da-da-da-da? Did you know that your people da-da-da-da? I was like, we're not doing that to our people. So what we did and just so happened, COVID happened. And it's a perfect place and space to keep this kind of sacred and private, right? And so we went on Zoom with our Puyallup tribal community. So we did not want people from outside of the community. in that first round not to say never but that first round again because knowing we all sit there with those feelings and not knowing these these stories and these histories it was our highest attended event ever we had over a hundred people like attending this for 18 weeks that's that's a lot to ask that's a lot and I wanted to keep building this up just so that people can keep hearing it you know and we have a tribal artist here Epiphany Couch she was in that first round of listening and now here she iscreating art for this history. 

Again, that's the whole point to conceptualize this. We had another artist, Daniel Baptista, same thing. I'm like, hey, you're really good at art. I want you to illustrate this. He got into the shoot scene. He was taking classes and it helps him as an artist to express this story because you have to kind of speak the shoot scene or have an understanding of it. And now here we are today with a dream. That wouldn't it be super cool to have, you know, all the Lashutzi tribes participate in this so we can just keep, you know, strengthening this history and now get to share it with the world, right? It's everybody gets a piece just like you read. You know, you have to have an understanding of this and the land. It talks about the land, the animals, everything. So if you live here, you should probably know this story.

I agree.

You talked a little bit about the process. So what we did is we called in some of the Lushootseed language departments and Lummi came. We love Lummi. We love you, Lummi. Come on.

You can come.

We talked about what are our creation stories? What is the protocol for these sorts of things? 

With any type of information, you know, the different ones we shared about. real and true information, the traditional narratives and our creation history. The elders were pretty strict about how you receive that information and when you share that information. And so we at the Piyot Travel Language Program try to do our best to honor what our ancestors did. So what we were told was, that means to literally desist your face. So you're paying attention. You're in it.

Don't be moving your tailbone around. So you sitting still, you know, and that was an old training for our people was to sit still for a long time, like feet on the ground, hands on your lap. Do not move. And that's not something that we see too often anymore.

But that's a part of the training that when you were listening to one of these stories that you were still. The other one is your five teachers. So your eyes, your nose, your mouth, your ears, and your body. So you're listening with all of your senses.

So you can take in, you know, everything from that story. You know, even doing that in nature, you can get teachings. You go sit in the mountain or sit by the river and sit there and be still and use your five teachers. So these are just, you know, I guess protocol or teachings or training.

We try to honor that because we don't want to lose that. The elders also said. Don't share these stories if people aren't paying attention. This is valuable information. So don't share it when people aren't paying attention. So we get asked, oh, can you come to this, you know, really big event and do a storytelling? And we're like, no, you know, because people are walking around. They're not there for it. They want entertainment. And that's not what we are doing. So we turn those down. Absolutely. So those are some of the teachings that we. We were told when we are sharing the traditional narratives, also gleaning the guadzara, the traditional. teachings from it. Sometimes at the end, we might ask, you know, what Zara did you get? You know, and you get really, like, profound answers, even from children, you know, or just stuff I would never think about. You know, again, because it speaks to you where you're at in your life, you know. It's like our Bible. So when you do storytelling, do you tell the kids to be still and they listen?

Yeah, we do this whole thing. Oh, yeah, there's also, like, you heard of Habu, right? So on a skweab, a traditional narrative. We're supposed to say habu to let the storyteller know that we're listening. Like, you know, uh-huh, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like, in English, we do that, like, to let the person know we're, like, paying attention to them. So in Lashutsu, you would say habu. And so the kids get, you know, and then that helps, you know, if they're not paying attention, they're not going to say habu, or we'll just stop the whole thing.

And then for Siatab, true information, somebody sharing true information, you say Osiab. That's the callback, Osiab. Like, you know, okay, all right, Osiab. True information, right? The only difference is with our creation history, that is true information, but the elders would say Habu during creation history so that's just a little piece but the kids absolutely were engaged and I think it's all about you know the prep we would pray before we would share stories absolutely try to get the space ready is our space it's a controlled space so we have control over that and you

have that here this is your house this is your space so you have control over that when This story enters this space, the art enters this space, the spirit.

So when you create this space, that spirit is going to fall down. And you're not going to have to worry about, you know, people acting up because this is what you are setting forward, you know. And if we do those things right, you know, being very prayerful, you know, making sure the songs are here because the ancestors are waiting for that. That's like their calling to get in here is the songs bringing them back in. So, you know, doing all that, you know. on the opening on February 7th you know that that helps and then when people are not you know familiar with our ways or what we do when they enter that space and we're all doing that they can't help but they have to do that like their spirit their body has to fall in line really so it's I've seen it with my eyes it's it's amazing so I have no doubt that that's what it will be here so yeah it's sacred it's the creation of this world.

So, you know, we want to take that pretty seriously.

Give it reverence, you know. Yeah. Well, we talked about how in our first meeting, you know, different folks came from different language departments around Coast Salish country.

And John LaPointe talked about how, you know, in our creation stories, You know, there might be discrepancies and differences in the way that maybe somebody from Suquamish or somebody from Tulalip or somebody from Swinomish or somebody from Puyallup might be telling the same part of the story and it gets told a little differently depending on who's telling it and where it's being told. But we don't argue over who's right. We leave space for it to be told differently. And I think that's an incredible teaching. I remember as a young girl in Swinomish, when somebody would pass away, the shakers would come. Sometimes the Buddhists would be there, the Christians. And then you have the smokehouse people. You have all these different prayerful people. But there was tolerance.

If we can learn anything from our traditional creation stories, it's tolerance, right? We need it. We need it, especially here in this country, right? Like if we want folks of different races, different backgrounds, different affiliations to get along, we need to practice respect and tolerance. You know, like I don't have to believe what you believe to pray with you. I don't have to agree to be kind and respectful.

But I think that that's such a beautiful teaching. So we've been thinking about how do we design a space? So when you come to the exhibition, it opens on February 7th. We're intending to create a space for cleansing for when you walk in. That was decided that there should be a moment to acknowledge that we're about to experience the sacred. So cleanse yourself, use sweetgrass, use sage, use water, use prayer, take your shoes off. However it is that you prepare yourself for the sacred, please do so now. Right. And and acknowledge that, you know, we're going to be having a special experience. And that's kind of an interesting thing to think about, because I don't know that you could pull something like that off in a non-native gallery.

But I think it's also kind of. powerful and profound that that's something we can do here.

So, you know, that was advised to us to do it that way. It was also advised that we bring in artists from different stages in their career, you know, and then so what happened was we had that meeting, the language departments went back and talked to artists in their own communities, nominated artists, and then we brought them in and we had a storytelling night. 

And, you know, many of the artists came, they already knew these stories, right, because they've been working on this project. And so some of them told stories about some of their creations. Amber told stories when we filmed it and then we said now go home and make something and we didn't give folks a really long time either you know we gave folks like two months you know it wasn't like we gave people a year.

And so that's kind of crazy. But also, you know, like who doesn't work against a deadline?

Well, most people work better, I think, with a deadline. So, you know, I was like, yeah, I know it's a little insensitive, but I also really want it to happen before, you know, my lease is up here.

So, you know, I do want to preface, you know, and say anybody coming to the show, I apologize in advance for the ways that things. could be better you know there's always we can always improve and we can always do a better job and if you're an artist listening to this or you're you know like a co-sales person you say I didn't get included I would I wish that I would have been included you know consider this your invitation come through you know come to the show come and learn with us come give us your feedback we're hoping to do more of this work we see this sort of as an as an entry point.

I'm just excited to be working with such a range of artists at different stages, but also working with such different mediums. It is going to offer a multi-sensorial experience for anyone that comes in. I love that we are creating a space that is so intentional and inviting people to slow down and sit with the work. Because the work that the artists made, even though we had limited time with them, they're not just illustrations of the stories. like living embodiments of it. And so I really hope that people are able to engage with the work that way. And it's not just for our own families. It's for the community overall. And people of Seattle and the broader area need to know the history of this place and respect that. Yeah. And if you can't come, if you can't come to Tidelands, you know, like you're listening to this in Australia, we're going to, you know, put this work up on the website, on our Tidelands website. be able to see some of it and you know we're also going to share some of these stories right now So I thought Amber could do a little bit of storytelling. You say, our creation history holds significance across Indian country. 

Various versions of our creation history have been documented and preserved in Lushootseed by esteemed elders, including George and Andrew Sanders of Nisqually, Jerry Canem of Snoqualmie, Jean... Chote. Hote of Puyallup, Susie Samson of Skagit, and the archival collection of Arthur Ballard. This story walk specifically showcases Jerry Canem's version of Duck Review. So where does the story start? The first portion of our creation history starts with Star Husband.

And, you know, there's so many versions up and down the Chute Seed Country. So that's the foundation. There were two sisters. These two sisters went camping. They were wishing on the stars above. The stars heard them. And the stars came down and took them as their wives. And then they were stuck up in the sky world. And so the sisters made a plot to get back down to Earth where they came from. Meanwhile, one of the sisters got... And so then they made a way to come down on a huge rope swing, made it back down to their people. dog salmon people heard about this boy, this special boy. And the old bullfrog woman was babysitting him and she was blind.

So the dog salmon people plotted and came and stole the boy and took him to the land of the dog salmon. And then in that time, the people, you know, were outraged. They want to get the baby back. And so all of these different people went to go try to get the boy back from the dog salmon people.

Blue Jay was successful. He ended up bringing the boy back. However, he ended up growing up and being a man. On his way back with Blue Jay, he said, there's something, something's going on in me and I don't know, there's something changing in me. So that's… time that where he was transforming into the transformer when he came back.

And his first work was to change the dog salmon people because, you know, they're out there just stealing babies. And, you know, he changed them into the dog salmon today. And he said that they will be food for the people coming soon. So there were times where, you know, he went on. He went on and did this everywhere. everywhere mountains rivers animals um sometimes depending on his mood you know he might be very kind and um ask you know um what what do you want me to make you and sometimes you know they would be like well um whatever you wish, you know, and they, okay, well, you're going to be, you guys are up here on this mountain, so you will be elk, and you will be mountain goat, and you will, you know, only the big game hunters will be able to get you. There was times where he was, you know, people were not happy about changing, getting changed, and he came up upon Mink, and Mink was just, he's a little snarky, a little jerk, and he was making fun of Dukwibal, so Dukwibal was getting very upset, and he ended up. cutting him into hundreds of pieces and threw him all over.

And that's why there's so many mink around. Just a little side note. I just killed my first deer. Slayed the beast, got the bounty. So I feel like I'm kind of obsessed with deer right now. So I'll read a portion of Transformer and the deer.

Transformer and deer.

The transformer was traveling and he came to the land of the deer. Deer was sitting down, sharpening a bone. Deer was going to kill a transformer. Deer was singing this is to do the transformer and i'm sharpening sharpening sharpening this is to do the transformer and i am sharpening sharpening sharpening Transformer was standing behind deer and he said, Oh, your singing is very nice.

Bring me your work.

Deer gave him the bones. Transformer grabbed them and inserted the bones into deer's hands. Then the deer went jumping away.

Transformer said, you will be meat for the people who are coming soon.

So I'm kind of obsessed with that one. I love it. And if you're a hunter, you will know about those bones in deer's front legs. So he's trying to kill Dukwibal and other versions.

The deer was trying to kill it. Oh, yeah, because he heard about it. Help me understand what happens here. Word was getting out that this Dokubush person was coming through and changing all things. And so he heard about it, and he was trying to get ahead of it. and take him out.

So there's all these different places and things that he went and changed throughout the land of this area. At the end, he got with his cousin. They wanted to go back home because all the work was done. And so him and his cousin became the sun and the moon.

And then they were done. I remember in some of our storytelling moments, you talked about how Transformer was neither male nor female. But sometimes I hear people talk about Transformer like it was a male. I wonder if you could clarify that a bit. He was born a boy between a human woman and a star father. And then at a point in his life, something was changing in him. And so he's not… he's not creator, but he is the transformer who transformed this area and what's down here on our land here, animals and people. Elders, specifically Vi Hilbert, made it very, very clear over and over that Dukwibal was neither male or female. Get that correct?

But people kind of do that. They'll say he or him. In certain versions of the story, they might say he, but she made it very clear and other elders that he was neither male nor female after the change. And there's just so many. different versions you know from all of those speakers that you just read off there um it's he has a personality he can get angry he can be happy he can you know kind of be a little vindictive he can be sneaky you know so he has these different personality um again again he's not god right so he's not creator um so he you know he was clearly born of of a human and and um celestial type you know conception um so he's kind he has he's not boring and he's not perfect that's I think I want to say that he's not perfect from from the accounts that I've I've read um he could be very generous you know well what would you like to be you know and um that John Hote uh he blessed our our mountain and she's just I just all my babies are down there you know and and he's like well you know how about we'll have this river come down and feed all your babies you know with the salmon and the nourishment you know so there's a lot of beautiful things um and compassion I think he had for the people and the things that he was doing so yeah Is there a story about how thepeople came to be the human beings? 

I think that goes back to the story of Slahal, like, you know, bone games. There was a war between the human and the animals. I think Bruce Miller has a beautiful story that he shared, and it's so detailed and so wonderful. We usually reference that version a lot. But, yeah, there was a war between the humans and the animals. They ended up… playing the game of slow hall to see who would be over the other one who would be the winner and then they would back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and then the humans won and the animals had to be submissive to them. And, you know, that's how they are today. Humans are over animals in that story of Slahal.

But I mean, there's a way better version than what I just shared. I was told if everybody that spoke Lashutzi is gone today to go back to these narratives, to go everything we need to know is in these narratives and our history and our information.

And so to me, I mean, I haven't unlocked, you know, all of the wisdom and everything that I need to know from these stories, but knowing that it's sitting in there and it's there and it's accessible to us and that we can constantly learn from these stories and the history and that each time we do hear these foundational teachings and stories, we're going to learn something new every single time. It's not going to be the same every time. But we pull that out of what we're hearing. I think everybody probably had one of those elders, why are you telling me this story like 500 times?

There's a reason why they're telling those stories 500 times. That's a part of this so that we won't lose these teachings or these histories. So a huge foundation that helps us to kind of get a glimpse of like our identity as well. A lot of times we walk around just empty, you know,

I mean. Talking about America, you know, there's a lot of problems because Americans don't always know their identity, right? And this is something that our people get to have access to, to have a deeper understanding, you know, and potentially changing their lives. I've seen people's lives get changed over these creation history stories and our narratives, and it's really justreally beautiful.

A little teaser, we hope to create a creation stories podcast. Maybe we'll launch it here on All My Relations, but we would also like to create a podcast that just tells creation stories, you know, both in our languages and in English, starting here in the Pacific Northwest, because this is who we are, but then also, you know, moving through Indian country. You know, everywhere we live in North America is Indian land. Everywhere that you go has a native history, an indigenous history. a story of how that place came to be, and it's worthy of knowing, celebrating, and teaching to our children. It's the answer. All the information we need to know about ourselves is in those stories. So if you live in New York City or Los Angeles or Texas, there is an indigenous creation story of the place that you live. Learn that story. Not knowing the story is institutional racism. structural oppression.

Overcoming that is taking responsibility for learning the language of the place we live and the= creation story of the place we live and all of us. have to do that work, right?

And so this is our story, some of our stories here. And it's for our people here and for people that live here. But it's also a reminder that these stories exist everywhere. And they're worthy of knowing, right? So hopefully, hopefully you'll come come down on February 7.

If not on February 7, the show will be open through July. Through the World Cup, if the World Cup happens.

And if you're an artist or if you're a curator, if you are a teacher and you want to bring students here, if you would like to engage with us, you know. This is your invitation come through. We wanted to have this on the podcast because we wanted to tell our community and the people that we love that we really want to be in community with you. And so if you see yourself fitting into this in some way, shoot us an email. Send us a message on Instagram. Call us on our landline. We have a landline, you guys.

We want to hear from you. So thank you, Amber, for sharing with us today and sharing some of your teachings and all this work. you've been doing for all these years. I'm so profoundly moved by your dedication to this work. This is not easy work. The only reason we can do this is because of all the work that you've done. So I'm really just grateful that you are willing to share with us and to teach us and to be gentle with us. Thank you. Absolutely.

How can people support your work, follow you, be an advocate for the Puyallup Language Program?

Oh, yeah. We try to have as much materials out there that anybody can access.

We have a website. We have Instagram. We have Facebook. We have a donate button on our website.

So for sure, give us the money. We want to spend other people's money. I like it. And then we pay natives. You know, it's a good thing. So, yeah. Yeah, but all of our information. is on on the website which is puyallaptriballanguage.org thank you and um on their youtube you can catch amber dancing singing speaking talking story their youtube channel is great my daughter loves it she we watch you you know the language program like several times a week so thank you for all that awesome yes and um we hope to see you here.

Well, that's all we have time for today, folks. Thank you so much for being a loyal listener, for joining us on this journey here. If you love this work, you can support us on Patreon.

You can find us on the gram on Instagram or at amrpodcast. uh you know you can come to Tidelands we're here wednesday through sunday 11 to 5 meet our team the other day somebody came in they're like oh my god it's you you're here and i was like yeah it's me i'm here and they were like i can't believe it's you you're here i'm like yeah me here it was very very funny um so yeah we're here uh come by we're at 55 university street in seattle come to the opening opening February 7th.

We want you to come, join us, sing, pray, tell your friends, tell your cousin, bring your auntie.

You know, we're really excited to invite you down here. And lastly, I want to say t̕igʷicid. I raise my hands to the team that makes this possible. t̕igʷicid Pancho, Francisco Sanchez, t̕igʷicid to Mandy and Katana. Ashley and Lee, everybody on the team, including Temryss, who's not with us today, but we are excited to have her back.

That's it. Till next time.